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Vineet
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to photosynthesis individuals podcast and video cast. If that’s a word where we talked to some of India’s top photographers and videographers about the craft and the business in India. Today we have with us Sanket Patel, who started out as a fitness videographer, which is an interesting niche that I’d like to actually get into. But now he’s running Neo Media Works, which does all kinds of events across the country, and we’re going to. Into style, we’re going to get into the craft, we’re going to get into the identifying the vibe of events and how brands can work best, how they can communicate best with videographers, for everyone’s just happy with the outcome. Hi, Sanket. Welcome to our show.
Sanket
Thank you so much for getting me here and I’m excited for this, for all the insights that I can share to everyone who’s watching and I hope it will be very helpful for them.
Vineet
Yeah. Great. I’m going to start off with asking you how you were into fitness videography. When was this? How did you get into this? Was it happened? Plans. Or did you decide to get?
Sanket
This also I don’t know this happens with a lot of people or not, but a lot of creators are accidental creators. They don’t really plan to be whatever they want to be, but just it’s one thing that makes them get started and they just explore it. So same with me. I am an engineer. I was in my third year of engineering. I was just sound to video editing and direction a little bit. OK, so I just I was just. I used to do some nature videos, travel videos, just very basic stuff. And then one friend of mine recommended me to another his friend. That this is the guy he can do videos and that that person needed some videos done for his own self personal brand. OK then I was like, yeah, let’s go. Let’s see. What is this? I went to him. He was a he was into fitness. And he wanted to do some promo videos for his personal brand, and he showed me some videos. OK, and the videos that he showed me were, like, from videographers who were international, not from India. And those videos blew my mind. And I was like, I don’t know anything. Forget this client. Forget what I’m getting. I just want to do these videos so I I did a study on it. I. I used to breakdown each shot, how they could have shotted, what edit they could have done. What is this song style that they’re using which is making it different and this I little of learned an experimenter on that guy and he was very happy because this style of videography. In fitness in his circle, no one saw it, and when they saw this video, they were like, Oh my God, this video is something different. This is a different style we never saw. And that’s the reason I got more fitness related clients or people connected through him and that’s how the circle started, OK. And initially I didn’t really want it to be a videographer or anything. I thought like, yeah, this art is also making me money because that time I didn’t used to get any pocket money. Or anything, OK. So money was a motivation I would genuinely say that, plus this was something which was giving me a little of Expo. So I started doing that and finally working for friends, converted into working for clients and then there came a time where I really didn’t knew how to deal with clients or what is business. So some friends of mine who had their startups, I looked them as my. Mentor and I learned from them. Lot of things, OK, and this is how I started from fitness videography and videography and into a business. And as a freelancer, though at that time I was just working as sanket. Well, there was a later realisation where I got to know that I can’t just work as my name and I can’t. It’s not sustainable it it’s not. I can’t grow it to a level. After that I decided to grow it as a team and not as just my name, and that was the time when I we found it like I found it. Neo Media Works as a company and then grew as a team. I’m lacking more into business skills than into creative, so that is also place that I need to expertise with.
Vineet
So I’m going to ask you a very existential question to. Begin with, yeah. There’s a bit of. A. A contradiction in being a creative type.
Sanket
OK.
Vineet
Partly I know a lot of people who feel here and that are, especially when you comparing yourself to the best in the world on social media. I don’t know enough. There are so many people who can do better. Yeah, but partly there has to be a little bit of, you know, I can do better than what is available in the market. How do you evolve as a, how did you evolve as a videographer?
Sanket
OK. So see, it’s not it’s not wrong to look at the best videographer in the industry. OK, that’s the goal you want to reach to. OK, if you’re making an art which is not even close to that, it’s it’s not something which should be motivate a person. OK, because. The number one fact that comes here is understanding. Who you are. OK. You are not someone who has done this from four or five years. You have just started, so understand that it will take time. This art will require patience. So this understanding should be there. I know a lot of people right now. They don’t have the patience they get. They they are really like they. They are really impatient on the art of I want to learn to get to the skill rather than understanding what the industry is. OK, so to evolve I would say goal should be the number one videographer, but when you present the art to some client, the only goal should be is the client happy with your art? OK, because that’s how you increase your level of clients. So you are in the number one circle, you make your clients happy, then those clients refer to bigger clients then you make them happy. You have a goal of where you have to. Reach. But whatever you produce doesn’t demotivate you because it’s not closer to your. OK, so you whenever you go to a your goal it’s it’s in steps. So this is how I personally looked at it. I never was impatient and I never planned to be a patient, but it happened naturally that I I was because I was in an age where I was learning, doing my graduation. It never made me impatient. So I was very patient and. Patient to learn the skill and not so that’s how I evolved naturally.
Vineet
So I’m I’m gonna actually goes from there straight to a very, very related point, which is your person.
Sanket
OK.
Vineet
Right. So and I’m going to ask you a very specific question. When you’re working with brands, especially some bigger brands, yeah, they have their own brand guidelines. They have their own style. Yeah, they do. You have your own style. You have a look. Do they end up approaching you because they like your look? Do they end up approaching you because they like your professionalism and they want you to adapt to their look? And they’re very clear about that? Or is it a mix of both depending on the client? Or can you even pin down, you know, bigger clients like this, smaller clients like that?
Sanket
OK, so there are in this case that you’re talking about. There are two situations. One is there are two types of clients and there are two types. Of creators, OK. One is a type of client who only gives their work Oregon. They they find vendors whom they relate their vibe of the brand with the style of the creator. OK. Second there is client who might not relate the style, but they might find you responsible enough to get this job done. OK, now.
Vineet
So the professionalism is there. Basically that’s what we’re looking for.
Sanket
Yeah. So that, that sense, they get through what kind of work you have done in the past, what kind of work you have handled, which type of brand, how big the scale of the work was. OK, now there are also two types in creators. One is who are flexible to do any end of job, OK and one. I have seen a lot of creators, freelancers, video agency who stick to their style and they choose the clients. If their style doesn’t match to the vibe of the client, they just don’t do the project because they feel that they end up wasting time in. OK, they just wanna pick up their niche, their style and grow. And just in that style or niche. OK, so now you can’t really. Uh control on how the client will be. I would say that’s a 5050% probability of what the client if they want you to do. They came to you because of your style or they don’t. They didn’t came to you because of the style. They just have their own guidelines and why. They want you to be flexible to it. So it’s you who decide which category you want to choose to you. Do you just want to stick to your style or you’re not like that? You are an agency which wants to do all kind of work and you’re flexible to do that. So I lie in the second one. We are flexible to do all kind of work and that you don’t decide, you sit and decide with your team members. We can do you develop that? OK, you obviously start with. Style, but because you want to scale your business and everything which I decided you will have to be flexible and get all types of plans you learn, you do mistakes, you fail a lot of times with that type of plans. But finally you crack the code and you know how to work with those type of clients which have their own guidelines and also. With the clients which came to you because of they liked your work and your.
Vineet
Style. On that note, I’m going to ask you two questions from both perspectives. Yeah, if I am a videographer. Yeah. What can I do to identify which kind of client? This is beforehand avoid heartbreak later and the second part is if I’m a marketer. If I’m approaching A videographer, what can I do to be very, very to make it very clear what I want, what my style is? Yeah, what do you recommend on both sides?
Sanket
OK, so the answer to this for both of them is quite similar. I’ll tell you how. OK. So when I was just a creative person, just a videographer, editor, or cinema doffer, I used to focus on my skills. But finally I ended up getting to know that it’s not just your skills, but it’s also understanding the client and the market. OK, so there’s really something which you want to do, which you want to know is KYC, that is, know your custom. OK, it’s very, very, very, very important. Your skills, your whatever is just after that. First you want to know the customer. OK, So what usually I do is. Us. OK. So it’s not just about the day of shoot. This is you have to understand very importantly it’s more about the planning and ideation conceptualization you do before the shoot with the client. OK, so that you are ready for the shoot. OK. So initial meeting is very important. If with the client this is first thing which any. Brand with video agency or a video agency creator should do with the brand. OK, where they discuss what the goals are of this project of this video, what the vision are, and you gotta listen to them. This is the time when a videographer creator should just listen. You shouldn’t be like, Oh yeah, this is my style. I want to do this. Yeah, we can do this. No, they don’t want it. First, listen what they are wanting to say, OK. And when it’s to a marketer, they should be very clear with what they want from this campaign. OK, so let’s suppose. The brand that once we did with the video agency was Jack and Jones, OK and Jack and Jones was a a title sponsor for NH7 Weekender. OK. Now you can’t just be like, oh, it’s Jack and Jones. Wow, it’s seven. We can. Let’s do this. Let’s do something crazy. First, you need to understand what is Jack and Jones. OK, so Jack and Jones is a company which is targeting genzi plus the youth audience, obviously, right? That’s why they ended up sponsoring. And at 7 Weekender, because that was the crowd there. I mean, so the vibe of the video, the song that you choose, the effects that you choose, the colours that you choose should. Is a replica of the brand or the vibe or the goals of the brand? OK, and that’s how you like, indirectly or subconsciously, you act, you take shots, you edit the video. Considering all of these things. OK, now if you haven’t done the initial meeting, you don’t know what the brand is. You don’t know the goals, vision or anything. You haven’t listened to the brand. And you’re just doing your thing. You do it. You like the video, you show it to a team, you show to other pillow, but the brand says you don’t like this and you are, like, clueless, what just happened? This was my I thought this was my bed. To work. This happened with me. I thought this was my best work, but why didn’t it work? Because you didn’t understand the brand. You didn’t listen to. What they want? And the brand also didn’t breathe because they thought this guy knows perfect. Now I’m looking forward for the shoot day. So this guy thinks he knows everything and that guy thinks this guy knows what I want. So this is the kind of miscommunication that’s happening. Right. So initial meeting understand, OK understand the purpose of why they want to do a video and then why they want to invest in a video like this. OK, that will also give you a lot of points, which you will make your shooting style, editing style and everything better. OK. Target audience. OK. The brand should know. What target audience they want to target through through this through this campaign and choose that kind of agency, OK, if the target audience is pure business. OK. So we have done gigs or events which were only for founders and CEOs. They were the audience there. OK, so my edit style, my song selection, my everything, my shots will be in the sense of people who are going to see this video, our founders, CEOs, sales, head marketing, heads of companies, OK. They won’t like all the stylized things that we are known for, right. But if my target audience is uh. Youth. That’s where I play a lot of with effects. Songs and everything. Because they’ll like the video. OK, so target audiences plays a vital role here. And then as I told understanding the brand, like, what’s the vibe of the? Brand one more thing is the brief of the shoot. OK, now the things that I. Talked on before was the brief. It was. It wasn’t a brief of the shoot, it was the brief of the brand, the campaign and what they’re happening. OK in the shoot where where you are in the location in the on the Reiki spot there you need to be very clear of what the brand wants me to shoot this installation. This part I want people to come in front of this installation. And they will do these things, OK. Lot of times. The event is just of one day, but there’s a six month of preparation or a year of preparation before that event, right?
Vineet
Yeah, yeah, the bigger events.
Sanket
Absolutely two days before the event, the brand is just running around here and there. It’s your responsibility to get the right brief to hold the client and ask 100 times. When are we going for the brief? When are we going for a rescue? When are we going for a brief? Because you’re just there. You like the event? Wow. We I’ll do this. I’ll do that. But there’s a small thing which the brand wants very important, that the head of the box. Of the brand has told this person who is responsible to get done because he just forgot because that was in the priority two days before the shoot. OK. And I just don’t. I didn’t feel that thing important and I didn’t take it. OK. Now the final conclusion is what I have spent 1,00,000 to make this video. My purpose of the video. Was 50% to get that shot or that get that thing done? It’s not. OK, there’s mistake of no one because this guy like me, I didn’t get the brief because I thought the person is busy. The brand who is the responsible and and he didn’t take because he thought I know it. Right. But finally, even after doing the best video, the best effects, best skills, everything, your video didn’t sell. Because you didn’t get a brief.
Vineet
There’s no such thing as a standardised brief right. Everyone also has their own styles of campaign briefs. So do you now have a checklist that, OK, this is all all the stuff that I need. To be there a in the campaign brief B in the event brief. Is this specific enough or not? Do you go back to clients and say, oh, look no, no, I need this. Also I need to know the.
Sanket
Because I am into this industry for five years now, even if I don’t get. A brief I make out that this is needed or this is not needed because I’ve seen what clients want. What would they want? What would they want to do with this and all? But initially, if it’s your first big brand then you don’t want to mess up, right? So you should have a checklist that this is required. This is required. On the day of shoot, OK, one is the raki and the brief do the shots. And on the day of shoot. Something other like it’s reverse. You can’t even plan of these things. It’s so messy. Whatever your plan was an ideal plan, but the practical plan. Can happen, right? But still the client has given you a brief right. OK, let’s suppose he’s told you to take few shots of this artist who’s gonna come. OK. And I want a shot of him saying this. This to camera. And because we wanna start the video with this. OK, we have planned. OK. OK. What I’ll think is. Yeah, I’ll have to just say. Tell the artist to say this. This all things. I’ll set the mic. I’ll set this camera. Yeah, you are the person. Cinema Doctor will shoot. And what happens is. Let’s suppose it’s rainy, it’s traffic, and the artist comes very late and he’s directly on the. Stage and he has gone backstage home. Whose fault it is no one’s right, but still. Only if the creator or the video agency who will think that this is my font and it’s my responsibility more than that is going to win this game basically. So what I’ll do is I’ll have a checklist and I know how important this point is. OK, what a lot of people do is they they think they have a reason that the artist. The artist was late, right? What should? We do. OK. The plan would understand it, but finally, after two months when they are about to give you the. Next work, they’ll still think that, yeah, is a agencies anyone. Let’s not give them work.
Vineet
So how complex does your shortlist actually get? Like does it run into multiple pages and are you even using pages? Or do you end up using any online tools like? Phone bill? Check. Check. Check. Check, check.
Sanket
That lies into more when we shoot commercials or ads, OK? And it comes to events. It’s mostly just. Notes like points on notes that I want to do because I just The thing is there in my head. I just want a reminder to see 2 words. Oh I need to do this then rest of The thing is in my head. I’ll just get it executed. That’s why I mean most of the shoots now I have stopped doing a lot of cinematography and more into. Yeah. Is this done? Is this done? Is this done? Because if everyone is shooting, who will make sure that is, these are these things are done. If I just went into shoot and I miss up something happening on the other stage, right because. That was here. That’s not fine. So that’s the reason there has to be some person who’s looking for all of these things, who’s directing all the team, what’s what they want to shoot and what they don’t want to shoot. You definitely need. Yeah.
Vineet
Yes, for the. The the creative producer sort of person who’s overall involved, you know, this is this is absolutely vital. This is second priority. Nice to have, needs to be absolutely perfect.
Sanket
Yeah, creative product. Yeah, if you do. If you have not got this shot, what can we do? Should we go for it or we should just Chuck it? So this decision making skills and? Everything, lot of people think event is just a group of cinema at all for shooting and then editing. No, it’s not like that. We do have a director, creative producer. We do have a mood mode of how the after movie would look like and everything just like a commercial. This gets on like the levels of clients and means if it’s a small gig then you obviously the. Client is also not the client is also not interested in this. You also say just do your thing, but when you get into clients like the big events that is the time when clients will expect all of. Yeah, concluding this section, I would say it’s important for the client, the brand to be very clear with. If the videographer knows everything that they want or just they are in an assumption and also a videographer to slightly guess, get less to his self-confidence and understand no, this is challenging. There might be few things which I don’t know, so let’s be clear.
Vineet
On that and I I know you said concluding the section, but. I’m going to. Ask one more question. Yeah. And I’m going to borrow a term from Gen Z. They use it a lot. I’m too old for that, but vibes. Somehow everything is about vibes. Too old to understand this now, but how do you gauge the vibe of an event and how? How should a brand gauge the vibe? Does it go well with what they’re going for because so much of it is fuzzy, right? So much of it is where the brand comes in so much of. It is like especially since you started off with fitness videography. Yeah, right. What does a brand identify with? What values does a brand identify with? So when you do music events. Do you end up giving opinions to brands? Look, this is actually how you should approach it. Or do they? The bigger brands especially, do they know? Are they good at this?
Sanket
OK, so basically to be honest, I am no one to give them ideas they have already spent the lakhs of money on their marketing agency and campaigns and they already know what they want to do. They just want someone to get it executed. That’s where we fall in. OK, so a video refer, to be honest, is no one to give ideas to a brand that we will do this and that because they’ve already figured out what they want and they have, then they have come to you with the reason the reason might be, as I told they like your style or either they like, they know that you’re responsible enough. OK. And so the question that you asked, there’s a very, very, very, very simple answer to it is we’re just one thing that you want. To do, you just need to ask them. Can I see one example of what you’re thinking? A video that you’re thinking of? And I just will judge them on that video. What kind of? And then I’ll just discuss on the video that do you like the song of this or do you like what exactly do you? Like in this reference. OK this is. Then you understand the psychology of the client. What from where does he come in from? What is he expecting from you or when he saw this reference and he was like, yeah, I just want to do this. Why did he think of Neomedia or sanket to get this done? I’ll ask everything from just that reference. If I didn’t get. Quite few insights from the reference I’ll ask. Can you give me one more reference? Something like that. OK, so this is the very first question to me. Even before getting on the price or what anything else that can you share me a reference? And I know I am knowledgeable and experienced enough to understand everything through this, just that one one reference, OK. So some might think that just one reference how can you understand the vibe and everything? But it works for me because. I have I have I have uh I have consumed so much content, so much content, so much content that I understand. What the vibe, what the style and what the approach or what the videographer has must thought before taking the shot, everything. According to my level of thinking, obviously I am I’m knowledgeable enough to get insights from a reference of work, what the vibe of the brand is, how to understand what the brand wants from you, just ask them. One simple question. Can you share me a reference and just discuss? On that reference. That’s it.
Vineet
And Speaking of references, what’s your favourite project that you’ve worked on? What are you? Most proud of. You got to pick one. No pressure, but pick one, yeah.
Speaker
OK.
Sanket
OK so. To be honest, we you do lot of stuff, you do lot of stuff, but there’s one gig or one project you do and you blow up like people feel. Yeah, that’s the project that is seen to everyone. OK, so one there were two events, major events. For us that we did one was the NH 7 Weekender for Jack and Jones and second was all you can treat. It was a fashion St style event which we did. So these were two videos or two projects which gave us our identity and style so.
Vineet
Like which weekend like Pune, Bangalore, Delhi like Greater Noida, like which one and when.
Sanket
The 7th was Pune and Ivy says all you can St was Mumbai so. Our creativity and our style reflects in events where young crowd is there or it’s made for the young people, OK. And these events were just about that, OK. And yeah, to be honest, to be really honest and genuine, I didn’t really plan of whatever I said for these events. I just. We just ourselves, just like I we just wanted to stick to our style and do it. And then it just happened. Like the video was fab, everyone liked it and we got a lot of work after these. So yeah, coming back to the point, these were the two events where I would say I’m really happy with because it resonates style and lot of people after these events used to shoot us. With references of our videos itself that this is how you want the video to be.
Vineet
Oh, nice. Oh, that is the ultimate, ultimate positive reference. That’s the ultimate testimonial. Yeah, so now I’m going to ask you how how things have evolved, because I’m guessing an N7, for example, they want this one. Video or? Three or four videos from the event to use in future marketing, right next year’s event. Like they’ll they’ll be sharing these, but now with social media spreading so much and everything being on social media like we’re noticing in our in the work we do itself, shelf life is getting so much shorter. Like you need more. And more and more and more videos. You can’t just make do with one or two. Like if a brand is launching a new product, they don’t need that one mega video as much anymore as they need like maybe 1010 reels, right? How is that changing your life? And how are you adapting to this?
Sanket
OK, so the perfect example for this would not be an event because there I could explain more better to this when it comes to ads or commercials. Or brands. Non like non event stuff. OK, so there are two types of approaches that any brand can do. One is they have ₹10,00,000, they just hire a big artist and they do one video, OK. And that’s it. They’ll use that video for 3-4 months. It’s gone. OK, so the other approach to this is getting small 10 videos in same budget or maybe not even same like. 20% of the budget. OK, making small 10 videos which you can run on Instagram ads OK which is called as performance marketing. OK. The other video that I was talking about was a commercial which you would display on malls or boardings as a campaign or in TV. OK. Fine, but I don’t. I really won’t end up going to mall and buying that product. OK. But when I see small ads, when I see testimonial genuine testimonials on Instagram ads, or maybe when they show me the features of the product. So according to a human psychology, a person needs a maximum of seven touch points to buy. A product online, so I have to create 7 ads in an order in a psychological order that any person would want end up buying the product. Some person buy it at justice first some person buy it at the seven point, some person’s fifth point. You make a ad which is for 10,00,000. You can’t track the results that if I’ve spent 10 lakhs 10,00,000 on this video, how many people ended up buying my video my product. But now in this case when you have seven ads in 20% of the budget. You can actually see how many people were interested, how many people ended up buying it. OK, if you see that, they just saw my third video in the fourth video, they didn’t interact with me means my some. There’s something lacking in my 4th video, so I’ll reshoot it with a very small budget. And understand I’ll experiment things on it, right and now you can track that I’ve spent 1,00,000 on this project for marketing it out of the 1,01,000 people were interested and finally 50 people ended up buying the shoe. Right. Yeah. Now me as a marketer or a marketing agency, I’ll see that. What better can I do so that my uh end result is not 50 people bang, but hundred. People bank. OK. And then how I can make different videos? There is where we lie. OK that how should I make this video so friendly that the person shouldn’t feel it’s an ad? Even it’s an ad then now everything which lands here is psychology of how you would think as a customer, as a viewer. Would see this video and uh, they they don’t they they just be for the video for the all 25 seconds or 30 seconds they don’t hit the back. How to make it engage in and everything so here your skills matter. To the last level. But before that is all the psychology and everything. So basically yeah, you have 10,00,000 OK use 5,00,000 for the commercial show that your brand exists exists, OK you see the brand on the TV you see on holding but then you go back home you see it on Instagram because there is the. That is the way you are going to buy the product. You won’t see a holding and then you see a mall. You go to the mall, you buy the product. Right. So as a brand origin agency marketing agency, they should have a balance of performance marketing plus making high end commercials.
Vineet
And how have you seen this evolving over the last, you know, couple of years sounds very wrong when you use the word evolving, but it’s it’s changing really fast, right, because every everything is moving towards video now.
Sanket
Yeah, because brands themselves have seen this, that they are getting more better results just by making small ads. So this is how it it has evolved. From making high end commercials with a big face light set up and everything to literally shooting with the phone, editing with a like an in house editor and making a lot of sales.
Vineet
Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much, sanket. This has been fantastic. I don’t have anymore questions. You look happy at that.
Sanket
Nothing like that. I’m. I’m happy that I could share whatever experience I had. Through this and my only goal was to whoever is watching this. They understand few things and apply it, not just understand but apply it and justice go for it and grow in their stuff or whatever they’re doing that is. The only way?
Vineet
Thank you so much sanket and guys, thanks for tuning in. Whether you’re watching on YouTube or listening. On Spotify or your favourite podcast platform? Keep tuning in and we will add a few links in the. Show notes. We will add references in the show notes. Stay tuned. Thanks guys. Bye bye.
