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Transcript
Vineet
Hello and welcome back to Photosynthesis, individuals podcast and video where we talk to some of the best, the most creative people in India’s photography and filmmaking industry. Today we have someone very acclaimed in the Gujarati film industry. So that’s a very, very new and interesting topic for us. Keertan Patel, who has directed two films, Bas Ek Chance and Back Bencher currently working on his third one.
He’s won awards, he’s won a lot of fame and accolades. Hi, Keerthan! Welcome to the show.
kirtan patel
Hi, hi, hi, yeah, hi, hi.
Vineet
very, very, very thrilled to have you on board here today. Though I want to actually start with Gujarati film industry, like as someone who isn’t well versed with that industry. And we saw of course, Bollywood to Bollywood. Right. Baki South film industry. We end up seeing a lot. How is the Gujarati film industry different? How big is it? How evolved is it? How has the experience been?
kirtan patel
Yeah.
kirtan patel
See Gujarati film industry is not that big as Telugu, Tamil and Kandar films like that, regional films like that. It has a small audience that covers Gujarat and Mumbai. So if we go to see Mumbai, we cover up to Pune. We release our films in Pune, Thane, then Bhiwandi, all that areas. And we get very good responses from there. So if we go to see, then Ahmedabad is the main hub for our industry.
that the most major shooting takes place there and the most collection takes place there after that the second highest collection we get from Mumbai so it is not less than, I mean good films are okay I agree like in bollywood also every film is okay in gujarat also it is like that the good film, the good content is okay but now the industry is slowly coming up here investors do not invest so much in films
They don’t understand exactly what is the income and how it comes.
Vineet
Hmm.
kirtan patel
In Gujarat, producers and investors don’t understand that what are producers and what are investors. Here, investors become producers and they go to deal with the market themselves. They don’t get anything.
Actually the investors are different, producers are different. Basically, the producer and investor don’t know about this. That is why the industry is not that high. There are many Gujarati producers and investors who have made Hindi serials in Mumbai. They are doing this because they know that we can get good products in low budget. They are doing their work smartly. There are some good producers who…
They make a film. So there are rarely 2 -3 producer investors who are constantly making films. Otherwise, here it is like this that the Gujarati industry has not received as much acknowledgement as it should have. The government supports very well. It gives 50 lakhs, 75 lakhs subsidy. The new investors who come now, they don’t even trust the government that they will give subsidy or not. But actually, the government puts it on their website everywhere.
If you ask the past film makers, they will also tell you that they got subsidies. But the new investors don’t believe that how the government is supporting us. I will give an example. I made two films and got good subsidies. I didn’t get any in the first film because there was no subsidy at that time. I got good subsidy in the second film. I got subsidy of 50 lakhs. I tell the investors sometimes. They don’t believe that the government will not give it. They keep delaying. Now the government gives it on time.
It’s okay
Vineet
So, how has this industry changed? Earlier, theater was more in business. Now, OTT has come on CD, DVD. What’s the difference?
kirtan patel
See, till now OTT and OTT have made a big difference. It was there before but not that much. Because I see that Gujarati industry was completely destroyed before 2011. That every film that came was Ghaagra, Chhanya Choli and that was the same film, Ghaav and that was the same. Ruler Zone. So in 2011, there is a man named Abhishek Jain. He changed it. He made a modern film.
which is now called Urban but we never call it Urban we call it Gujarati Cinemahee because whatever film is you are making in Gujarati language so it is our mother tongue so we call it Gujarati Cinemahee but after making that film everyone knew that if we can make this type of films with good technology, good camera and all that so after that people started watching and till date not many audience had gone to cinema
If we go to see the graph from 2011 to 2024 Mostly if you go anywhere then Most of the people in Sauras watch Gujarati films before Bollywood I will tell you a center Rajkot Rajkot has 6 -7 cinemas out of which 3 -4 are multi -plex and 2 -3 single screen There weekly collection of any good Gujarati film that is released Which is good Starcast, good Noon or good quality trailer
then it will cost you at least Rs. 25 -30 lakhs per week.
first they give reference to Gujarati films like Rajkot, then Junagad, Baunagar and then if someone goes to second view option then they go to see Bollywood etc. so now that trend has completely changed that how Gujarati films have increased the love of people etc. so I want to say the same thing that the industry is slowly growing it will take a little more time in 5 years it will go up a lot because today I am talking about Bollywood so…
kirtan patel
Many investors are from Surat or Gujarati. Even if they are 50 % Gujarati, they are from there. They also think that we want to be Gujarati. As I mentioned in the last film, he was one of the big producer in Bollywood. I made a film with him. His dream was that I have never made a Gujarati film in my life. He made the first Gujarati film with me.
Unfortunately, they have died due to Corona. But there are many investors who want to invest in Gujarati films. It is now being understood that the Gujarati industry is growing. We can make good films with less investment. In Bollywood, a Gujarati film is made in 10 -12 crores.
good star cast, with some medium star cast so it is better to make 3 Gujarati films within 10 crores and if one of your films would have been successful you can get a 20 CR hitter I want this like the producer of Kanan Pandit who makes Hindi films very well, he has made 2 -3 Gujarati films all three have hit because he is business minded, he knows what films are going on, he makes them now the new investors here are local like Ahmedabad, Baroda or Suratia
Vineet
hmm.
kirtan patel
they don’t want to understand the business of cinema. They will do any film, Bhojpuri or any other film, they will do it in a loss. Because they don’t know the model, OTT, how it works. They don’t want to make a film, so they make a story. They don’t want to hire good writers, they don’t want to hire a good director, they don’t want to hire a good cinematographer. The basic good needs for film technicians.
They don’t want to do that. They want to make a film in 70 lakhs. It’s okay if it’s okay if it’s 70 lakhs. But make a film in 3 crores. It’s okay. Make a film of 1 .5 crore or 1 .60 crore. Keep a plan of marketing and releasing of 1 .40 crore. Even Bollywood people keep this. But don’t spare 3 crores to anyone. Everyone wants to get 1 crore or 2 crores in 70 lakhs. They won’t get it. Government won’t give you subsidy. All the films that are made well are in between 2 .5 crores and 3 crores.
government gave 50 -75 lakhs subsidy to that film and that film is on box office I will tell you that within 3 .5 crores all the Gujarati films are 90 % hit because of good marketing and all that but the films that have released marketing within 1 .5 crores like 70 lakhs film, 50 -60 lakhs marketing, that film doesn’t have 10 lakhs box office collection
Vineet
Bye.
kirtan patel
that is why the good investors who want to invest well they back out that these films are not working they see that if the film is of low budget then if we invest big budget then how can we do that but they don’t understand that good star cast can come in 3 crores good making, good technology we can use everything now they make films on small sony alpha cameras in 17x camera doesn’t matter whether it is a good or bad, it is also required in OTT
But you won’t get the quality that the audience wants. You won’t get star cast or anything. You won’t get good writers. My film is all about the budget of 3 crore. I want good directors like me to take the same budget. I will advise good investors to first take knowledge about how to recover 3 crore.
and after that you see what all things I can do for the project that which writers, all the good Gujarati writers I want, they are shifting to Mumbai Bingay, Maroravar, Ahmedabad, they are all good and shifted there then I hire them and write a good script, so they know what is going to happen which content audience likes it but no one wants to pay that they don’t want to pay a good amount to the writers they want writers at a 50 ,000 or 75 ,000
good writers take 7 -8 lakhs so they get that amount I will tell you about Backbencher writer told me earlier that he will write in 3 months which I had written the content then when he came to know that this is a children and education based film then he took 1 and half year for writing if you watch the film you will feel that it is basic but
Vineet
Yes, because this work is also very monthly. This is number two.
kirtan patel
I didn’t have any problem with the sensor, or the teachers. I had 37 ,000 tickets for bulk booking in every school.
Vineet
Wow.
kirtan patel
even in Baroda, Bhaunagar, wherever its branches are, schools etc. were shown with parents. So the reason for that was that we are showing something positive about education, something positive about children and parents. So if anything is negative, then it will be a loss for everyone. Parents will not be able to understand their children well, neither will our message be conveyed properly, nor will anything happen. So he took that much time and today I am getting appreciation for that film everywhere.
it is called, earlier someone said it is like Tarah Zaman but when I saw it, it was totally different this is totally different story of kids so you should watch it then I went to Bulk’s Booking and all for that film then I realized that they are right that what kind of script should be written if it is written on kids also many kids came to my film
But they don’t understand that someone made a movie like Chiller Party But they don’t understand that with kids, there is no fun and games You have to show something good about the society You have to show something good about the education or something whatever Also, if you tell it in a humorous way, the audience will accept it And the audience had accepted it So this is the potential of a good writer who investors don’t understand Investors come up with their own topic and they want to make a movie on it
Recently I had a big investor from Ahmedabad who said that they make films on drugs. I said that so many films are made on drugs, what will we do with that? We don’t want to make a film on drugs, which gives negative things in the market. We make a good film that the audience and family likes. If we tell something about drugs in the film, nothing will happen. It will be that a person is taking drugs and we have to get rid of him.
That’s it. That’s what is said in many films. We don’t want to make. Still that investor wants to make that film. They made the film. And it’s still in loss. No one has gone to watch that film. The collection was not above 75 ,000. So, this is how it happens. When a good director, I mean, an investor is told everything well, they don’t want to hear. They have to make their own judgement. That we will make the film as we want to make. So, there the Gujarati industry is laxing that…
kirtan patel
We don’t have to understand the audience because we are making films for the audience and the audience is giving us money back. So we have to understand the audience. Daily you will ask the audience to eat Dal Bhat, they will not eat it. One day they will say they eat something else. So this is same thing like in films also. That we don’t see one type of films. You see so many horror, thriller, OTT films, no one wants to watch that film in a cinema.
kirtan patel
So these are the things that investors should take basic knowledge on investment on any of the films. So this is my perspective.
Vineet
No, that makes sense and do you feel that production values wise? Now you are saying that a good film can be made in a budget of 2 .5 -3 crores. Right? But do you think that it is regional, state? Mostly audience is limited to a state and of course Gujarati people outside. Do you think that production values should be better or okay? You know, within that…
kirtan patel
Yeah.
Vineet
Within that budget, very good production values can come.
kirtan patel
There are two or three Gujarati films that are worth 10 -12 crores in Gujarati One is Kasumbo and the other is Rado Rado is a film in which they didn’t use green screen or technology that much but the production value was very good The second film is Kasumbo They used a lot of green screen and VFX in it So there are good investors who trust good filmmakers
I have made the latest film of 3 .5 crores. We shot in Manali, Udaipur, Ahmedabad and Baroda. If we work in a smart way, then technology is also based on the quality of the area, which is good. I will talk about Backbuncher. We created a narrow -gauge train setup. I don’t know from where I got the permission to do that.
We went to buy it and someone sent me to Bhaunagar, someone sent me to Charjit. So, there was no permission for narrow bridge. Nobody knew. Neither did government and Amit. So, we were getting close to the shooting and we got to know what to do. We have a small studio. The cinematographer Sunil Patel in my camera, who has done a lot of Hindi films. Like, Salaam Namaste, Bachana Hai Haseeno, all these big films he has done. So, he has a small studio.
kirtan patel
Sunil Patel has made a big film and he has his own studio setup in that studio we made a narrow train bogie under 85000 and from that material we made a police station and a house we worked in the same studio for 10 days and no one knew what we did
Vineet
Please screen traffic.
kirtan patel
and the studio was not that big either I would say it was around 1400 feet or 1500 feet tall and we made a big train there
we used about 1 .5 to 3 lakhs of material in total so we made 3 -4 big setups in which we could work for 10 days and if you watch my back venture you will not know how we shot it the audience will not know that it is a real AI we did it so real after that the second film that I did
so i thought i can create a nice scene here because nobody has shot in the ropeway if i go there to set up an ARRI camera we can’t get anything because if i go there to set up the camera my ropeway will be used as a compartment so we took the ropeway setup from here
we made a set of that too and with that setup we used technologies like VFX etc no one can identify that this is real or fake
Vineet
So this is green screen again, then I mean actually, how was this?
kirtan patel
they have created a setup in the studio and green screen is also used so we can do this technology when you have a good cameraman and if you have a good VFX supervisor with you then you can do this perfectly and till now it has happened in 3 -4 films, a film called Hilaro which has received the award of Best Feature Film so they have worked hard in that film and they have also made a setup of the whole village there
You can see the village but they created a setup. So the vision of the good producer, director and writers is there. So you get to know about the technology and the audience that this is quality work. The biggest competition with us is Bollywood. Every week a good Bollywood film is released by StarCast.
Mr. My and more
Vineet
And someone is going on multiplex, the pricing is the same I am guessing. Okay, this is the same price as Anvir’s question.
kirtan patel
May you.
Pricing is the same. Yesterday it was Rs .99, today it is normal rates. But if our Gujarati audience watches Hindi films or Bollywood or Hollywood, then we can make a quality film within 3 -4 crores. In 70 -80 lakhs, if the location is less, then we can make it. Otherwise, we can’t make it.
A producer came from USA and made a film. He made a film called 21mu Tiffin and he thought of making another film in the same budget. But he didn’t understand that 21mu Tiffin was 80 % in the same house. And his films were in 18 locations. If you go there to compare the budget, you won’t get comparison in the budget because it is 18 locations. You can shoot in 2 -3 locations per day. And that too if you stay close.
If you stay away from the director, you can finish the movie in one day. That new producer had not taken anything, he just signed the director and made the story. Today, he got beaten up in the box office. He was comparing his film with the movie 21 muTiffin, which was made in low budget. But he did a very punctual work. That director is smart, so he made the film that he can shoot in one location on a low budget. So, producers don’t understand all these comparisons.
I give to the biggest fault producers in Gujarat that they don’t trust the directors and they don’t trust the writers They appoint their own writers, whether it’s first time or not I want to get good writers, there are no big writers yet where they are good But you have to give quality with Bollywood films or Tamil films like RRR, Salaar etc.
kirtan patel
we compare it with the budget of 3 -4 CRI. At least we will give them quality content. No one knows the director, producer or artist. Still, when I went to see it, it was 80 % houseful. Because it was content work. No one knows Dishyap Shetty here. Still, the public went to see it. So, we will give quality and all that for Gujarati film.
you will not give anything different then nothing will happen then you will use a good technology but according to me the last thing i told you that the budget of 3 .5 crore or 3 crore with making and releasing everything is including that will work and work and work
Vineet
But with the team also. Because honestly, we have only talked about the production side. Your creative side and production side, you are obviously working on both. Because the director is not just the creative, right? The director is also managing everything overall on set. How does your brain work on the creative side? Doesn’t it clash? I have to think, but I am also in a hurry to finish this scene and move forward. But no, it’s not 99 % there.
kirtan patel
Yeah.
kirtan patel
Yeah.
kirtan patel
Yes, yes.
Yeah, yes, yes, yes.
kirtan patel
May I tell you, you are a thief!
I am telling you that I have learned these things from my self -experiences. In the first two films I made, investors trusted me. Now I am a producer, director and a director. Now I am making a first -time film. I have to see everything. Should I make a film economically in budget? If I make a film economically in budget, then I will have to pay Rs. 75 ,000 or Rs. 1 lakh per day.
if one day increases so in the first film when we were shooting I had a 18 days schedule unfortunately it rained for 4 hours in February
so i was in a problem that my shooting time was 4 hours because we had shot half of the video and it rained so i had to stop shooting and i couldn’t shoot that day so my automatic shooting time increased to 75000
In the second film also, we made a set. I had set a budget for the set. I had to tell the investors that we are making a train and we are making a police station setup and a house setup. We took the calls creatively on me. We made the setup and the investors were happy. At one point, I went to take the investors’ permission that my film is on a backbencher.
kirtan patel
we have to make a setup that we can’t keep the camera setup in the back bench because the wall will come there after the last bench so me and my cameraman said that we can create a fake wall and we will keep the walls there and we will cheat the shots as I told the investors that there is a small expense of 35000 and we have to make a small setup
Vineet
Yep. Yep.
kirtan patel
that we are creating a classroom again. So I asked him what is the need? You have shot in a classroom for 2 days. So use it there. I told him that the classroom is small and there are no big classrooms. So we are making a setup for that. We will paint the same thing again. We will do all the creative art. So he refused. That time I understand that if we tell investors anything, they don’t understand.
Vineet
Hmm.
kirtan patel
they know that it is good as i didn’t tell them about train setup when they saw the film they didn’t know that it is real or something when they saw the house setup, they asked me to shoot the house i said that it was a setup which we destroyed the investors also said that it is very beautiful because the value of art and production is very good in the industry
you can watch any film, it looks real so we did the setup and then we destroyed it so many people came to ask where we shot at that time we realized that without telling anyone we shot it, everyone liked it automatically but the permission we wanted to make, we didn’t because there is a cost, why to make it if you have a real location but they don’t understand that it is a back venture film, I want a camera from where we get the shots we wanted
So those things that we don’t want to tell investors, if they give us the creative freedom, then it can be shot well. Like I am talking about Karan Johar, who is a big producer and director, so those new directors who give him the chance, they never ask what you are going to make. They say that on the trust, they say that this is the money you make the film. They know that if this person has trust, then he will make a good film anyhow. So investors are not in Gujarat yet.
who is creatively directed or trusted. They have the same thing that in a low location, in a low budget, shoot quickly and give it in 12 hours. That’s it. That’s the only difference.
Vineet
And I think on that note, we can wrap up this conversation. Very, very interesting discussion. New insights into production, direction and of course the Gujarati film industry. Kirtan, thank you so much for joining us.
kirtan patel
Yes, yes, sir.
kirtan patel
yes yeah thank you sir thank you yeah no problem yeah yeah
Vineet
Thanks so much
kirtan patel
yeah of course I will share that yeah okay
Vineet
And thank you everyone for tuning in and we will see you next time on photosynthesis. Bye bye. Thank you.
kirtan patel
Thank you, sir. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.
