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Vineet
Hello and welcome back to Photosynthesis Indiviesuals podcast where we talk to some of the most creative people in India about the art, the craft, the business, the culture of videography and photography in India. Today we have with us a very very very special and very senior guest after lots of technical problems Mr. Aniket who has basically been a cinematographer for almost three decades now.
or maybe he does three decades because even I took time to comprehend all his experience. He’s worked with Bollywood, he’s worked with the Marathi film industry on a super hit called Dagnichal. Unfortunately, I don’t know Marathi so I haven’t seen it. He’s worked with Ramgopal Verma on Veerappan and he brings so much experience. I’m very, very happy to have him on board. Hello, Mr. Aniket. Welcome to the show.
Aniket V Khandagale
Hi, Vinit. Hi, viewers. And at the very outset, let me thank you, Vineet, for giving me this opportunity and team Indiviesual for getting me on board for this podcast. It’s a great honor for me.
Vineet
Oh, the pleasure is entirely completely ours, completely ours. Very happy to have you here. And I have so many questions. I will just begin with the technical aspect of cinematographer, DOP, when you go on set, what is your team like? What team do you have?
Aniket V Khandagale
Thanks a lot, thanks a lot.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes, sir.
Aniket V Khandagale
OK. OK, see, the basic job of the cinematographer is to shoot a film. The camera work, the camera is, the visuals what you see on screen are shot by the cinematographer. So the way a still photographer shoots a still frame, we use a camera which shoots at least 24 frames. It varies from one frame to.
200 frames, 500 frames. There are different cameras for that. But the basic standard around the world for feature films is 25 frames per second. So 25 frames per second are captured and 24 frames per second are either broadcasted or shown in a theater, inside a theater, or projected inside a theater. That is the right thing. So the team of a cinematographer consists of
of see the cinematographer basically has to operate the camera. So there is going to be an operative cameraman. Then there is a team which does the lighting. So that is headed by a guy called gaffer. So there’s a gaffer who has the lighting team. There are a number of there’s a electrician, there’s a light, there are a number of light men inside that team. Then there’s a grip team. The grip team basically,
Their job is to fix the camera in a particular place where you cannot put a place, a tripod or anything like that, and also move the camera. So they might move it on a dolly, which is the equipment used for tracking the camera around. Or it could be on cables, or it could be on a drone. There are different rigs, actually, which they
create as per the need, or they use some readymade rigs, depending on the situation, actually. Then the most important, there is a focus puller, who, on the instruction of the cinematographer and the director, keeps certain things in focus. If you notice in a film, not everything is in focus. So it’s a conscious decision made by the director and the cinematographer. What are the things?
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
the viewers, they want the viewers to see, you know, so basically the cinematographer is the eye of the director. So he is basically the perspective what the director wants for a particular film that is given by the cinematographer. Yeah, correct, correct. Vision of the director, correct, correct. Absolutely, you’re absolutely right, right, correct.
Vineet
So translating what the director is like, we want to translate the vision of the director to the audience.
Aniket V Khandagale
For example, I’ll just briefly slightly expand it. For example, the audience sits on a single seat inside the theater, inside a dark theater. And they get to watch the same action from multiple angles. So for example, there would be two people talking inside a room. But in a very few minutes, you will see a
the person A is faced from the point of view of the person B and person B is faced from the point of view of person A. Or you might see a two -shot of both of them in profile looking at each other and talking to each other. So there are multiple point of views and these point of views are decided by the director and the cinematographer together to narrate the story to, you see, the story means there’s drama in the story. So either you need to…
present the drama the way you want to present it. So for that you have different points of views, you have different things which we do like for example we move the camera from point A to point B, we might charge the camera onto a particular character. So basically as you rightly put it, the cinematographer is the eye of the director.
Vineet
That’s an interesting one and every director is also different I guess. Every director would have their own working style, there would be some consensus builders who share everything with you. There would be like the… as we were discussing day before, there are some directors who just tell you bare minimum and just show up on set and how does that work and how do you end up preparing for a film?
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes. Yes.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes, yes.
Aniket V Khandagale
Correct. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah, see, as you rightly said, different directors have different styles. Every director has a vision. There’s no doubt about that. But they have a different way of communication. Some directors, they involve themselves completely in the visual process. They will pre -vis the entire film. They will go for storyboarding the entire film. They will work on the color palette of the film.
For example, they will get the production designer and the cinematographer together and we will together decide a color palette for the entire film. What kind of colors will be used in the sets, in the costumes, what kind of toning the cinematographer might want to do in post, you know, all these things will be discussed before we go for the shoot. Whereas there would be certain directors…
who won’t involve themselves in these decisions like color palette and what kind of camera movements are required. But they will give you a fairly good idea of how the film should look. And in that case, what happens is that we have a lot of conversations with the director.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
We ask them in terms of paintings, what references they would have seen certain kind of paintings. So what I tend or rather a of cinematographers tend to do is they try to get into the mind of the director by showing him different references or he might show us different references.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yeah, so different directors have different ways of communicating with their team. Some directors are extremely, they are fully involved in the entire visual process. Like I said, they will sit in previous, they will give you a complete idea of how the film should look, what are the camera movements and everything they will let you know. Certain directors, they will…
not let you know anything. For example, they will not even discuss how the visual look will with the cinematographer. They will discuss with the art director what they want. They’ll discuss with the costume director what they want. They will, I won’t, the cinematographer won’t even have an idea of what is going to be done on the sets. When they go on the sets, then they will just tell the cinematographer that, okay, this is a day scene and this is the mood of the scene.
And I want a camera movement from left to right. And this is what will happen. So you’re at a complete loss. And in this situation, this what I’m telling you, this I’ve encountered in the older days, in my career earlier days when I started off. But today’s time,
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
99 % of the directors with whom I have worked, they are absolutely clear of what they want before we go to the set. Yeah, it happens. One thing that happens is, yeah, we might do the short division on the set. We won’t pre -visualize it. But as far as the look is concerned, yes, they are very conscious about that. And they will take the entire team of production designer and the cinematographer together. And…
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
have a discussion on how the look of the film should be. And that matters because not everything can be taken care of in post. So whatever colors we need, we need to have them on the set. They have to be right. Then from my end, the color temperatures of my light have to be right. I have to ensure that technically my lights have to be correct. And then when we go in the post, what
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
At most, what we might do is we might create a certain tone for the film, which is for the overall frame. So the faces also might go into that tone. And this thing generally happens for period films. Or it’s a psychological thriller, for example. In that case, we might use this method.
Vineet
But what differentiates the kind of… So do you think a director with a more videography background, cinematography background might be more decisive? I will tell you what to do. Because I would think if I’m hiring an expert cinematographer, I’ll be like, you know, West, this is my vision. You tell me how to communicate it.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yeah, yeah, Eric, I’ll put it.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yeah, there are directors who have been cinematographers and who completely dominate when it comes to how the film should be shot. But as you rightly said, you know, there are directors. See, the best what I have noticed is, see, since you are hiring a cinematographer, you also have to, as you rightly said, leave some part to him.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
And the best part, what I have noticed up till now, is what happens through discussions when the director, maybe previous or on the set, the director comes and tells that this is what I want. Then the cinematographer adds to it. Can we do it this way? He will either negate it or he will support it and say yes. So generally, two things come together and a third idea comes up.
Vineet
Yeah.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
So that is the best of what I have noticed up till now. If things happen that way, some different magic happens. Because you started off with A, there was a point given by the director. There was a point which came out of the cinematographer’s mind. And then both thought, arey, A B ko baju rakke, C ko garte hai, which is a part of A and which is a part of B. That is what creates the magic.
And a lot of time, I have to be very honest in saying that a lot of things are impromptu. I have worked in a film where we had the entire storyboard, you know, and when the director went on set, he kept the storyboard aside and we did something totally different. But what we had visualized in the storyboard was much better what we did on the sets. So it was a good thing. He did invest some money in that storyboarding process, some 8 -10 lakh rupees were lost, but…
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
I will definitely say that what actually turned out was much better than the storyboard. But that happened because he was a new director and what happened was on the sets, the artists said, no, no, we are not comfortable doing the way you have visualized it. Can we do it like this? He said, yeah, he liked it. And he said, OK. Then because of that, we had to change. And it kept on happening in every scene. And that’s how we got a completely different thing. But it was…
Vineet
That’s what you just did.
Aniket V Khandagale
good better than what actually we had previous.
Vineet
That’s it. But, and you’re saying now directors these days, whether they’re collaborative or not, at least they have a very clear vision that they communicate to you before the shoot. What’s changed? Why do you think that has happened?
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes, yes, yes. In today’s time.
I think in the older days, awareness about cinema, especially for new people who came into the film world without a film school background, could only either assist certain directors and know about the process or
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
would just walk in and depend on their technical team for the entire process. We have all sorts of examples in the film industry. They would learn on the fly, on the go. But in today’s time, information flow is so good that even if you have not assisted anybody, even if you have not attended any film school,
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
The directors or the people who are coming to making films, they are aware of the process. They are aware that certain kind of communication has to be done. They are aware that film making process consists of a lot of designing work. So we have to design the look. For example, I have to design my lighting. It is not that I simply go on the set and tell them that,
Vineet
Thank you.
Aniket V Khandagale
I have a conscious process which I have pre -visualized. For example, whenever I go on the set, a lot has taken, my mind is occupied with what is going to happen on the next day, the previous night, or a lot of mental pre -work has happened much, much before the time we go for the shoot. So…
There’s a lot of thought process which goes, why we light up the way we have lit up. It is not simply for the heck of either side, it’s not like that. A lot of thought process goes, the situations, the characters, so we might use a particular quality of light for a particular character, or we might use a particular color tone of light for a particular character, or for a particular space. So all these things we have.
Vineet
Hmph.
Aniket V Khandagale
thought about it. There’s a lot of thought process. And today’s time, the younger lot who is coming for making films, they’re aware that all this process happens, you know. You see, in the initial days, who were the filmmakers in India? They were either from FTII or NID or your Tamil Nadu Film Institute or who had learned with the masters who were already working in the industry. But in today’s time,
If you go on the internet, you come to know by looking at the behind the scenes of some film which is shot in Hollywood, you get to know what the process is, how they approach the entire filmmaking process. So directors today are much more aware of that process. Another thing what happened is people, I have a feeling that in the earlier days, people were very secretive about the process. So they didn’t want to, you know,
be very much communicative and they would probably feel that I would let out the entire thing. For example, the cinematographer should just know what he needs to know, the actor should just know what he needs to know. He did not know what is happening with the costume designer or what is happening with the art director. But in today’s time, the information flow is so open. I think it’s probably because of that information explosion.
that people are so open and they know that it won’t make sense hiding anything. It’s much better if we talk to people and let them know that this is what is happening. See, in the earlier days, there was no joint script reading, for example. The director would tell the main hero,
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
only thinks what he needed to be told. He will never tell him what scenes he has got with the villain or what with maybe the secondary artist or the secondary artist wouldn’t know that what is the role of the primary artist, you know. But in today’s time, there are joint script readings and all the artists know exactly what the other artist is going to do. See, there was a reason for what why the earlier filmmakers would be doing that, you know, because.
there is a lot of insecurity among artists. So for example, they want footage. We’ll put it very simply. They want screen space. So if somebody else is taking up the screen space or if somebody else is having a better dialogue, then he would get insecure. So the best policy was in cases where there were dialogues which were really good, they would shoot a close -up of this guy separately and a close -up of this guy separately.
Vineet
Thank you.
Vineet
Good one.
Aniket V Khandagale
And only those, you would have them in a two shot, only in those lines, excuse me, only in those lines where the lines are mild enough and they don’t know what exactly, the other guy’s got a powerful line than me, the other artist is not going to know that. So you would have heard stories, like in the earlier days, this used to happen a lot. But in today’s time, I think,
with the explosion of information, even the artists are much chilled out and they are okay if somebody is having a better line than them or what I have noticed. Maybe, you know, it still happens in today’s time also. I’m not going to say it’s completely changed. But at least in today’s time, most of the directors I have noticed, they give out information and they…
Everybody knows what’s happening, you know. The art director will also know what the scene is, what the artists are going to do. Everybody knows everything.
Vineet
So what for you then is the pre -production process? If every director is a bit different, you let’s say you’ve been assigned to a movie, what planning do you, how do you go about planning before the shoot begins because every director is different, you don’t even know what the expectations will be. Or are you like, okay this director works this way so I know how to…
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes.
Aniket V Khandagale
Correct.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes. See, what happens is that once you know the director, you know, most of the directors are very clear with their process the moment you meet them the very first time. They will, you know, for example, certain directors will tell you that we’ll just have a location reiki so that you know what the locations are. But see, again, I’m talking of the earlier days. In today’s time, it doesn’t happen like that. At least I’m not noticing a director like that.
Vineet
Thank you.
Aniket V Khandagale
In the earlier days in my career, it has happened, you know, where the directors would just take me for the location, recce, but I didn’t even have a inkling of what the script is. The only thing was I was told that this is the subject and that is it. Not nothing more than that. But this is again one or two percent in the earlier days. But in today’s time, most of the directors, they will let you know they will first give you a copy of the script. They will ask you to read the script.
Vineet
Oh.
Aniket V Khandagale
And then what happens is then now for me the challenge is to understand from the director’s mind how he is visualizing the script. So as I said, there are certain directors who are very vocal and will let you know the entire information of how they are visualizing. They are generally the directors who have written the script themselves. They are very clear. The script itself starts reflecting what they want. And then they are also very vocal about it.
Then there are certain directors who are working on a script which is written by somebody. So in that case, I have to be more careful, and I have to really get into their mind by asking them a lot of questions, by doing a lot of cross -referencing work to understand what kind of look they want. And then after this basic is sorted out, then we start with the location reiki. Because.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
Once you know what kind of look you want in the locations, then it is easier to find those kind of locations. Then that is jointly done with the directors. Most of the times in today’s time, what happens, they have a team which goes and tries to select options for a location. Then,
Vineet
Heh.
Aniket V Khandagale
We check the photographs and then what we think best, we might go and check two or three options and finalize one amongst them. See, a lot of things are happening parallely. You have the location reiki happening, then you have also the look tests happening. You have how the characters are designed in a certain way. They have a certain look.
So, parallel to the look tests happening, so we are in today’s time, the cinematographer is involved in the look tests also, you know, what kind of skin tone, because not necessarily we are going to use the original skin tone of the artist. So, it might be a very fair looking artist. For example, in the film Virapan, the gentleman who has played as Virapan is a very, very fair looking Jat guy. He’s not a South Indian guy. He’s from Haryana and he’s got blue eyes.
and a fair skin, but nothing of that sort you’ll notice on the screen. So he was given a pair of lenses which made his eyes darker, his skin tone was changed, and all that makeup, get up what you see, mustache and stuff, all that was. So we are involved in the look test also. For example, I can discuss with the makeup artist whether the tone what he has given, whether I want a slightly lighter tone or slightly darker tone.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
So all these discussions are happening. We actually shoot. We actually shoot and see how it’s coming up. Then we are working with the production designer because today’s time, a lot of stuff is shot on live locations. But also, not everything can be done there. So we might have a long shot out there, and we might cheat a lot of it inside a studio, so where we’ll create the set.
Vineet
and then.
Vineet
Give me an example, like how would that work?
Aniket V Khandagale
So for example, I want to shoot in Delhi and the film is having some big artists which we cannot actually have them shooting on the streets of Delhi. So we will create, for example, old Delhi. Let’s talk of old Delhi. So we will create a portion of old Delhi actually inside a studio which is not even in Delhi. It might happen anywhere. It could happen in Bombay also. So for example, if you…
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
see all Manirathnam films, you know, he has a lot of films which are supposed to be happening in north of India. For example, Rosa or this one more film which he did, it’s an Air Force story, you know. So he would, if you actually notice his films, a lot of work is intermingled, you know. A lot of things is shot in Ooty, Wellington, and a lot of some few shots are taken in the case of Rosa, it was in Manali.
because at that time they couldn’t go to Kashmir. But in the Air Force film, they could go to Kashmir. So they have shot some portions out there and they have intercuded with some portions in Wellington, your staff college, Wellington staff college, and there’s a hospital out there. So, and see, you can cheat things in such a way that you really won’t notice what is where, you know, because space is something what you tell the audience that this is the space, you know.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
So that is how, so in that, it’s basically cheating, you so that cheating has to be done in such a way that you’re not caught. For example, the film Bombay by Mr. Maniratnam, a very little portion is shot in actual Mumbai. Most of it is shot in Chennai. So they had, he’s got a great art director Mr. Thottatharani. So Thottatharani sir had created all the sets in Chennai.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
So this is how actually it happens because for lot of either logistic purposes or security purposes, it’s not possible to shoot on a given location what we actually want. For example, I want to shoot.
Vineet
Now you’re telling me that the film The Martian was not actually shot on Mars? You can’t say that.
Aniket V Khandagale
Okay So I see the point
Vineet
Yeah, but another very interesting topic that we got into when we were speaking on Friday is and coming back to how things have changed over the years going from film to digital. So one of course is the medium itself has changed, but how has that changed life around you? How has that changed work for you in general?
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes.
Aniket V Khandagale
Correct. Yes. See, during the film time, what used to happen was everything used to revolve around the can of film, which is to be a 400 feet. Initially, it used to come in thousand feet rolls. Then we started getting 400 feet rolls. Now, this 400 feet roll would cost anything from 10 ,000 rupees to 13 ,000 rupees a can. So producers, directors, the actors, they were all the entire unit used to be concerned.
So in the earlier days, they will never roll the camera first. They will first roll the sound. Once the sound is rolling, the boom guy will announce the sound inside the scene number. Scene number and shot number and take number will be announced, which will be recorded on the sound device, which used to be a magnetic tape in those days. Then later on, of course, digital stuff came up.
Then the clap guy used to be ready and the clap used to be always on the edge of the frame. If it’s a wide block, he will never stand in the middle of the frame. He will be on the edge of the frame, you know, because yeah, he can go away quickly and you don’t waste much footage in that, you know. So the after the sound is announced, then we used to switch on the camera and the moment the camera switch on, we will shout clap and the clap guy will just give the clap and rush go out because he’s already announced the sound, you know. In today’s time,
Vineet
so you can learn every key.
Aniket V Khandagale
the camera is rolled first because it is all cheap, digital is cheap.
Yeah, the story is free. Effectively, it is free. But it’s not just about that. See, for example, I’ll talk about cinematography. In the earlier days when we were doing film, when the digital intermediate process had not still come in. Digital intermediate means what? Everything used to be shot on film. And a married print used to be made on film.
Vineet
It’s free, storage is free, effective.
Aniket V Khandagale
and is to be projected in the theaters. Digital intermediate means what? We will shoot on film, then we’ll scan the film and get everything on a digital space, on a hard drive, you know? And do whatever needs to be done on that. There will be computer graphics, VFX work, and finally a color correction. And then re -record it back on film and project that film, make your regular prints and project it in the theaters.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
So when the first thing, the DI process came in. Before the DI process for a cinematographer, I had to be perfect in everything what I did. Because if any mistake, nothing can be done in color correction. Absolutely there was no way things could be changed. If the intensity of a particular light is overexposed by mistake, nothing, it’ll look overexposed.
or if the frame is underexposed, it will look underexposed. Nothing could be changed. So we had to be perfect. If I have to cut light on a particular wall, I have to cut light on a particular wall. If I wanted a particular intensity in a particular place, I have to have that intensity. There is no way I can do any mistakes. So we had to be extremely perfect about what we are doing inside the frame, the lighting part of it.
In today’s time, when the DI process came in, in the digital color correction, we could take care of a of things. Not everything, but a lot of things. For example, I mentioned that if I had to cut light on a particular wall, I had to cut light. In today’s time, a little bit of leeway what I get through this digital color correction is I can actually cut some light on the wall in the post, in the digital color correction. So I can save time in today’s time, in today’s world, I can save time.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
because cutting that light on the wall would take some time. So today also, primarily I would like to cut that. If I have to cut the light, I would like to cut the light. But if there is a time constraint, then I will just say, okay, leave it. I can do it in the post. See, since I have come from a old school, I still try to keep things as perfect as possible. But
But then I also understand that time is a constraint. There are a lot of artists. There is a unit of 200, 300 people, 100 people on the set. So by taking the time to cut the light, which I can also do in post, I am consuming the time of all those 100, 200 people. So it’s a conscious decision which we make in today’s time that, OK, if something I can do in post, I better do it in post. I will not do it here. Which?
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
In the earlier days, it was not possible. If there would have been a unit of 1 ,000 people, for example, 1 ,000 junior artists would be there. Still, I had to take that time, do that work perfectly, and then only move ahead. In today’s time, I can do this. Facility is there where I can do a lot of things in post. For example, in the earlier days, when the VFX technology was not there, if there is a certain thing in the frame which
needs to be out of the frame. I have to get it out of the frame. But in today’s time, you can wipe things. For example, if we are shooting with multiple cameras and one camera is in frame, I can wipe it later on in the frame. So all those differences are there in today’s, in the older days and today’s this thing. But the major difference, what has come, is in terms of discipline. In the earlier days, when the raw stock was there,
Vineet
Yeah.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
the film was there, the entire unit used to be highly disciplined. Because everybody on the set knew that this role of film which is running inside the camera is very costly. So for example, the spot boy also knew that if I make any sound during this time, if I create, if there’s any disturbance from my side, then it’s sort of a sin, you know, that I have, I have, I have,
like made a loss of some kind of money for the producer. In today’s time, there’s no rostock and it’s free, as you rightly said, the space is free. So nobody’s bothered. There’s a shot happening and people are walking around and they’re talking and they’re chatting except for where we are doing sync sound. In the case of sync sound, in today’s time, again, we have to maintain total silence. And of course, there’s a separate.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
team which locks the sound of bouncers which will go around and actually silence people if need be they will hold their mouth and make them shut up. But in other cases if you’re not doing sync sound if you’re actually recording a pilot track people are not bothered you know okay no problem you know they can retake because it is free you know but they don’t realize that you know in
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
The time wasted, again, time is money. So there’s a unit. Everybody’s being paid. So this lack of discipline is very evident in today’s time than what we had. had great discipline, and people used to work very, very seriously. In today’s time, somewhere that is lacking, where because of that digital thing, people think, OK.
He can always retake. So if I had something important, because for him there is something important what he is saying. What is happening in front of the camera is not important. So that lack of discipline is there in today’s world.
Vineet
And editors must, I’m guessing editors must hate it like they suddenly end up in mountains of information.
Aniket V Khandagale
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, yes, yes. In older days, directors used to be very particular. They will take, see, for example, if somebody is saying a line and somebody has to react, you know, so they will not, while shooting the reaction, they will not get the entire line, you know, they’ll just make, take the reaction only on those words where that reaction was required. In today’s time, they will take and they will only shoot the reaction of the artist whose reaction is required.
In today’s time, they will shoot if there are four or five artists around and all are supposed to react, but you can probably use only one or you can use a group shot of that reaction. But they will take everybody’s close up and the artist has to say the entire line again and again. For example, if the dialogue is for two minutes, they’ll shoot the reaction for two minutes, which was never the case in the earlier days. Earlier days means just that.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
two second reaction, they’ll take a two second reaction. One second, they’ll take only for one second. They will not ask him to keep on reacting. In today’s time, the editors, they have huge amounts of footage coming in. Then another change what has happened is in today’s time, since this footage is free, so they shoot from multiple angles when not required. But still not all of the few directors tend to do that.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
Oh, let’s take a mid shot also. Let’s take a close shot also. You already have the wide shot. Now let’s take the same, the entire thing from 200 different angles, you know, for top angle, low angle, everything they will do, which is not required, you know. Where, see, this is the place where a lot of cinematographers do chip in and say, if it’s not necessary, don’t take, we are wasting time. But again, you know, there’s a limit to where you can.
put your foot down. It’s not possible everywhere, because then they will also, very politely, no, no, please, let’s do it. Of course, if the situation demands a lot of cinematographers to put their foot down and say, no, no, now the light is going to fall and we need to wrap up this scene, otherwise there will be a continuity problem. But only in that case, what if that is not happening, then?
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
they will keep on shooting, you know. And the artists are also used to it. So that changes. But we need to realize, you know, that the cost of production goes up because of this. Though your space is free, if you’re even shooting for two or three or four days or five days more than what is required, every per day cost is very high.
so on, you might end up with a lot of crores more than required.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes.
Vineet
I’m going to ask you one last question before we wrap up. Like film is on, has been on 24 FPS, 25 FPS for ages. Now you have like cameras which can shoot 120 FPS also. You have TVs introducing motion smoothing, which automatically takes it to 60. What’s your thought? Like what is your thought on this whole thing? You of course must have very strong opinions.
Aniket V Khandagale
Yes, yes.
Aniket V Khandagale
See, there is a reason why it was 24 FPS, why we landed at 24 FPS, there was a reason for that. See, when the actual film started in 95 until say around 1920 or so before 29, before sound came in, it was around 16 FPS per 16 frames per second.
Now sound used to be, in those days it used to be magnetic sound. So this golden figure of 24C, film was costly then also, film was costly till it died, till it went away. Today also, today people do use film but it’s very rarely, but it was costly through the entire history. So for the sound, they needed a particular length.
So 16 FPS, the length of the footage of sound in 16 FPS was not sufficient to give that quality. They couldn’t fit in the signal in that particular length. They needed more length. That is, I’m talking in a very simple term. So for the audio signals, the golden ratio they found was at 24, you had a good enough length where you got good quality sound in those days.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
because the actual sound which used to come was an optical sound. A light used to be passed through on the side of the film, there used to be an optical track. So light used to be passed through that and the variation of the light would create the sound actually, would be converted into the sound signals.
Now, so this they had come up with this golden number of 24. Now, again, what happens at 24 is what is important for cinema? See, you have 24 still frames being projected in the theater one after another. OK, in theater in those days, it is to be projected twice. Each frame is to be projected twice. There’s again a technical reason for that. I’ll be confusing the audience if I go into it. It will be it’s another lecture. So.
Vineet
Thank you.
Aniket V Khandagale
I just keep it simple that each frame used to be projected twice. So each frame used to be projected for 1 by 48th of a second. Because it was being projected twice, so it used to come to 1 by 48th of a second. Now, actually what is being shot is a still frame. What we actually shoot is still frame. We shoot 24 still frames every second.
So if you actually see on a film, every frame is still. But in every preceding frame, there is a little bit more motion than the earlier frame. So example, if I’m moving my hand, if my hand was here in the last frame, it would be here in the next frame, then here in the next frame. So like that, you will see that motion. Now, if you actually see the frame, you would never see the entire thing very sharp. You would see slightly a bluish kind of movement. You know, because…
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
It is shot in motion. So that thing we call motion blur. That was thing what we call motion blur. So now what motion blur you get at 24 FPS if you increase the frame rate. For example, if you make it 48 and you also projected at 48. See, what you shoot at and what you project. If that is same, then you will see the way the motion is.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
If I shoot at 24 and if I shoot at 48 and if I project at 24 then you will see the entire thing in slow motion.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
But if I shoot at 48 and project at 48, then what now what is happening? That is something what we call a high frame rate ready. You would have seen this term or they are they were actually planning, you know, that the entire international standard, they’ll push to 48 from 24. There was one film also which was done. I think it was. How it was done, the only film which was done on that as an experiment.
Vineet
Yep. Yep.
Vineet
Hmm.
Vineet
The Hobbit I think they tried.
Aniket V Khandagale
Now, what happens in that is your motion blur reduces. If you increase the number of frames per second, that motion blur keeps on reducing. So if you ask my point of view, that should not be done, because that is one of the magic in cinema is that motion blur. So a lot of cinematographers, they tend to play with the shutter. It is OK if you.
cut the shutter angle at a higher frame rate. Okay, there’s no issue. But if you cut the shutter angle at 24 FPS, again what you are tending to do is you are tending to reduce the motion blur.
Vineet
Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
So the magic of cinema is going to go down. So if you ask me, that should not be the case. See, 30 FPS in US was their standard because they had less number of lines. Our standard was 25 FPS in television. That is the PAL system, which Asia and certain portions of the world used. NTSC was the.
Vineet
Yep.
Aniket V Khandagale
system which they used in US had 30 frames because they had less number of lines. That is why it was 30 FPS. We had 100 more lines than their system. So we had stabilized it at 25 FPS. But all these things, in those days, scientists had done with this thing in mind of motion blur. That that should not be disturbed. But that is the thing which creates the magic. So if you ask me.
it shouldn’t be the case we should stick at 24 and have the entire thing happening at 24. There is no point in, you know, unless sharpening, because that sharpening is unrealistic. And if you actually project, then only you’ll realize what is the difference between this and shooting at higher frame rate and projecting at higher frame rate.
Vineet
And in fact, I don’t know if you saw this Tom Cruise act before Top Gun Maverick came out, shot a video for it on YouTube telling people to go into their TV settings, change their display settings to cinema mode so that it is not adding motion smoothing. It is not doubling up the… Yeah.
Aniket V Khandagale
Okay.
Aniket V Khandagale
Okay.
Aniket V Khandagale
Ha, exactly. Correct, correct, correct, correct, correct. I have not seen this video. But exactly. See, if people are able to get this awareness and let them know, you know, why… See, there is no point in even increasing the resolution. I feel 4K is a good enough resolution because that is what your eyes are set. If you start seeing things too sharp, again, it will be very unrealistic and that is not something what we were used to.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
See the film what we used to use in the earlier day could hold information something up to 8k.
There are no digital pixels out there. It had silver grains. And they were spaced around in random patterns. The process was such that today, pixels are fixed. You have one, two, three, four in a line. So in the older days, the grains were just randomly dispersed. They were sprayed on the entire thing. So every frame had a changing grain pattern. In today’s time, what again?
Vineet
Oh, okay.
Mm -hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
The film look and the digital look, that is a major difference. That was a magic. Every frame had a different pattern. In today’s time, every frame has the same pattern. You have the same pattern of pixels, whatever the number of pixels is. So also, you know. So actually, because of this technology, the entire idea of the film world is to emulate the film technology.
Though we have gone digital, but the entire idea is film. They look up to film and try to mold these technologies to make it look like film. Now, this is one space where they have not cracked up anything because the pixels are fixed. So that part of magic what you had in the film days where you could shoot on a film and project it on film.
Vineet
Hmm.
Aniket V Khandagale
You also have to project it on film. Then only that magic will come. In the digital space, we are missing that. Maybe they will do something about that. But at least up till now, we don’t have anything regarding that. So if you start adding motion smoothening and stuff like that, then you’ll only end up losing the earlier magic we had. Because we already have problems. It’s not that we are completely like film.
Vineet
Yeah.
Vineet
and fun.
Vineet
I’m really glad I asked this question as a passing question. I’ve learned so much in the last five minutes. It’s amazing. And I think that’s a good spot. Thanks, Mr. Aniket Khandagade for joining us. This has been a fascinating discussion.
Aniket V Khandagale
Not my…
Aniket V Khandagale
Thanks Lord Vinit, it’s my pleasure, my pleasure.
Aniket V Khandagale
Oh, no, no, sorry. I don’t care. Cinematographers have to be very patient. That is our job, you know. Patience is our job. We have to wait for a particular light or do things in a very short time. Maybe we need a cloudy atmosphere and the cloud might be passing, so we have to finish. So we have to be very adaptive and very flexible.
Vineet
And thank you for being very patient with all the technical problems we faced over 4 attempts in 2 days.
Vineet
Yes, thank you so much for joining us and thanks everyone for tuning in and we’ll see you next week. Thanks again.
Aniket V Khandagale
Thank you, Arul. Thank you, Anit. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
